Taylor and the Multiverse [Worm / Gamer] (2024)

Eastiling said:

The other, probably better reason, was that I didn't want to fix things that will happen in Naruto too firmly in place. Part of this is me experimenting with ideas and somewhat free writing. I have plans, but they are broad strokes because I want to work towards whichever I ultimately choose organically.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I wouldn't think any of the options would be the sort to fix events into place. I assumed they would be things like (Choose your family or drop in as you are), (when relative to canon you start), (apptitudes and general powers/bloodlines), etc. basically background details of the setting and her starting position in it. She could spend points to get a Naruto setting minus akasuki or get points for having a Healthy Nagato or something.

It might have stretched to something like (learn this specific jutsu), and that might be amusing to have the world contort to drop said jutsu in her lap despite her growing into a different build.

If you haven't locked those background Ideas in yet, it was probably too early in the story to do this jump at all.

Alternatively, Taylor shouldn't be getting jump documents when she goes to a new world, she would instead just have to earn the benefits of those worlds organically through hardwork and The System. This latter is closer to what I was expecting, in that Taylor would pick a time before "canon" and basically start as a hobo and work her way up through the system with MP subbing in for Chakra or whatever native equivalent. Naruto is even a good first pick for that due to being a setting with learned shapeshifting and ways to steal bloodlines, and active research into doing so. The System and Gamers Body could allow for using that research to develop some form of trait stealing, and that plus shapeshifting plus ninja training at blending in gives her a good grounding for fitting in properly in any future setting. Without any Jump Documents spoiling what might or might not be changed about the setting.

If you must have jump documents, letting them be f*cked with in this way is essentially unforgivable, because of the mental, physical, and spiritual changes they force on both Taylor and the world she is visiting. A setting in which this is capable of happening is going to be one where the War mentioned in the past is barely scratching the surface, and if the Powers That Be wanted to prevent anything like it happening again, they would not use this method to patch it.

Or to put it another way, both Malfoy and the guy who did something like this to him (regardless of how actively harmless the choices ended up being were!) would have been wiped out for touching someone else's document, and that sh*t would be monitored properly.

Sleepyfoo said:

I wouldn't think any of the options would be the sort to fix events into place. I assumed they would be things like (Choose your family or drop in as you are), (when relative to canon you start), (apptitudes and general powers/bloodlines), etc. basically background details of the setting and her starting position in it. She could spend points to get a Naruto setting minus akasuki or get points for having a Healthy Nagato or something.

It might have stretched to something like (learn this specific jutsu), and that might be amusing to have the world contort to drop said jutsu in her lap despite her growing into a different build.

If you haven't locked those background Ideas in yet, it was probably too early in the story to do this jump at all.

Alternatively, Taylor shouldn't be getting jump documents when she goes to a new world, she would instead just have to earn the benefits of those worlds organically through hardwork and The System. This latter is closer to what I was expecting, in that Taylor would pick a time before "canon" and basically start as a hobo and work her way up through the system with MP subbing in for Chakra or whatever native equivalent. Naruto is even a good first pick for that due to being a setting with learned shapeshifting and ways to steal bloodlines, and active research into doing so. The System and Gamers Body could allow for using that research to develop some form of trait stealing, and that plus shapeshifting plus ninja training at blending in gives her a good grounding for fitting in properly in any future setting. Without any Jump Documents spoiling what might or might not be changed about the setting.

If you must have jump documents, letting them be f*cked with in this way is essentially unforgivable, because of the mental, physical, and spiritual changes they force on both Taylor and the world she is visiting. A setting in which this is capable of happening is going to be one where the War mentioned in the past is barely scratching the surface, and if the Powers That Be wanted to prevent anything like it happening again, they would not use this method to patch it.

Or to put it another way, both Malfoy and the guy who did something like this to him (regardless of how actively harmless the choices ended up being were!) would have been wiped out for touching someone else's document, and that sh*t would be monitored properly.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

We don't even need to look that far. Look at all the Lewd CYOA of Worm and see how much their minds and personalities are f*cked with. Definitely many people are angry because of that.

And Taylor being an Uzumaki just compounds on the level of f*cked up. For the love of God please don't let Danzo be a Coil situation because both are EXTREMELY different.

Danzo for all that he was PoS at the start was more the pragmatic side of Leaf Village who wanted to make tough decisions for his village's future. It is in his old age that he became the senile PoS.

Sleepyfoo said:

I wouldn't think any of the options would be the sort to fix events into place. I assumed they would be things like (Choose your family or drop in as you are), (when relative to canon you start), (apptitudes and general powers/bloodlines), etc. basically background details of the setting and her starting position in it.

... Snip...

If you must have jump documents, letting them be f*cked with in this way is essentially unforgivable, because of the mental, physical, and spiritual changes they force on both Taylor and the world she is visiting.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This was less a jump doc and more a result of using the Lock 🔒 item. As an item that lets you edit a world it was far more valuable than Taylor realised. I imagine that in Gacha terms it would a Legendary pull.

I don't intend on it or the power it allows to be frequent thing in the story so no worries. Keys are one way I see to travel, but alone they just open a door.

But as an example of the kind of things I'd imagine a Lock could allow?

Give yourself a super bloodline? Senju anyone? Naruto's first hokage cells of [that makes sense] BS. All the big bad characters nod.

Kazuki_King said:

And Taylor being an Uzumaki just compounds on the level of f*cked up.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Uzumaki is definitely also broken, seal masters ect, yeah, but mostly off screen or hearsay. Chakra chains and healing via bite. The shear... Madness that is the First is just Sage of Six Paths level of... How did that guy ever die though. He 1 v 2 beat Madara and Kurama...

Taylor and her dad didn't have a lot of time to workshop her 'jump', given they had no idea how it would work, but that alone would hack most of Naruto to pieces. No other point spends needed. I've read others describe Taylor as having High INT and Low WIS. In this story her dad was essentially doing the heavy WIS lifting...

...

I'll also go on record for those worried about it but this is not, and will never be, some dark or twisted Lewd CYOA thing. It also won't be a Taylor thou shalt suffer story. Coil is cringe and my least liked character in all of Worm. And that's why he had his... agreement renegotiated by a Stylish Fedora wearing lady. I don't want to write, read or deal with him.

(I'll freely state here she is not a Senju, heh).

Eastiling said:

This was less a jump doc and more a result of using the Lock 🔒 item. As an item that lets you edit a world it was far more valuable than Taylor realised. I imagine that in Gacha terms it would a Legendary pull.

I don't intend on it or the power it allows to be frequent thing in the story so no worries. Keys are one way I see to travel, but alone they just open a door.

But as an example of the kind of things I'd imagine a Lock could allow?

Give yourself a super bloodline? Senju anyone? Naruto's first hokage cells of [that makes sense] BS. All the big bad characters nod.

Uzumaki is definitely also broken, seal masters ect, yeah, but mostly off screen or hearsay. Chakra chains and healing via bite. The shear... Madness that is the First is just Sage of Six Paths level of... How did that guy ever die though. He 1 v 2 beat Madara and Kurama...

Taylor and her dad didn't have a lot of time to workshop her 'jump', given they had no idea how it would work, but that alone would hack most of Naruto to pieces. No other point spends needed. I've read others describe Taylor as having High INT and Low WIS. In this story her dad was essentially doing the heavy WIS lifting...

...

I'll also go on record for those worried about it but this is not, and will never be, some dark or twisted Lewd CYOA thing. It also won't be a Taylor thou shalt suffer story. Coil is cringe and my least liked character in all of Worm. And that's why he had his... agreement renegotiated by a Stylish Fedora wearing lady. I don't want to write, read or deal with him.

(I'll freely state here she is not a Senju, heh).

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Ah. I was giving L-CYOA more as an example of Reality Alteration Power's also messing the user. RAP already have 4 letters of the bad word and it is essentially a rape of self. Mutilation and reconstruction.

I get the OC Malfoy was a plot device, but I'm going to go with it feeling extremely cheap. Even if the excuse is multiversal travel and meeting other gamers.

All of the rules and 1st jump forced randomness could have been explained with default system mechanics that apply to everyone.

What we got was an asshole that could modify someone else's system, blatantly disregarding the supposed rules, and intercepting someone mid world transfer.

What should Taylor conclude?

The rules are BS, probably put there by other assholes that figured out how to impose them.

Her power isn't fully hers because any jerk can lock her out of her system and modify it for her.

She has to figure out a way to make sure this can never happen again and erase everyone involved out of existence, because she's not safe if there can be another random asshole that decides to trigger all of her buttons.

Depending on how you decide Taylor will act from now on will make or break the story IMO. Hopefully it doesn't break SOD and is consistent with what you've written so far.

randoomy said:

I get the OC Malfoy was a plot device, but I'm going to go with it feeling extremely cheap. Even if the excuse is multiversal travel and meeting other gamers.

All of the rules and 1st jump forced randomness could have been explained with default system mechanics that apply to everyone.

What we got was an asshole that could modify someone else's system, blatantly disregarding the supposed rules, and intercepting someone mid world transfer.

What should Taylor conclude?

The rules are BS, probably put there by other assholes that figured out how to impose them.

Her power isn't fully hers because any jerk can lock her out of her system and modify it for her.

She has to figure out a way to make sure this can never happen again and erase everyone involved out of existence, because she's not safe if there can be another random asshole that decides to trigger all of her buttons.

Depending on how you decide Taylor will act from now on will make or break the story IMO. Hopefully it doesn't break SOD and is consistent with what you've written so far.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Knowing Taylor? She would happily go on a crusade against all the Gamer's out of sheer spite. She has enough determination to keep going through a genocide of proto-human species if she took the action of one to blame the whole civilization.

Okay, I liked this story up to this point. Random op jerk screwing with other worlds and people because he's a nihilistic @#&@2$@#$ is int enjoyable to read, especially when it was just an excuse for the author to had wave away other dumb plot stuff. This seems to happen with every gamer Taylor story, I swear.

I hope the rest of your project turns out well.

randoomy said:

I get the OC Malfoy was a plot device, but I'm going to go with it feeling extremely cheap. Even if the excuse is multiversal travel and meeting other gamers.

All of the rules and 1st jump forced randomness could have been explained with default system mechanics that apply to everyone.

What we got was an asshole that could modify someone else's system, blatantly disregarding the supposed rules, and intercepting someone mid world transfer.

What should Taylor conclude?

The rules are BS, probably put there by other assholes that figured out how to impose them.

Her power isn't fully hers because any jerk can lock her out of her system and modify it for her.

She has to figure out a way to make sure this can never happen again and erase everyone involved out of existence, because she's not safe if there can be another random asshole that decides to trigger all of her buttons.

Depending on how you decide Taylor will act from now on will make or break the story IMO. Hopefully it doesn't break SOD and is consistent with what you've written so far.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This.

Other Gamers having the ability to influence and modify the systems of their fellows has some DARK connotations. I would never feel safe again if I was in Taylor's shoes, and she is approximately 5000% more paranoid and violently proactive than I am by default.

SkinnyP said:

Other Gamers having the ability to influence and modify the systems of their fellows has some DARK connotations.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

And how is this any different from an ROB making the decisions for her? It means Eastling doesn't have to come up with various min-maxing for Taylor to hem and haw over. Its something I actually applaud them for, especially after my own attempt at a gamer story died horribly.

yukicrewger2 said:

And how is this any different from an ROB making the decisions for her?

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

ROB assignment it ROB assignment, it is arbitrary.

Both Taylor and we the readers where told and shown she had agency in her choice, then she had Zero.

and then

"This was less a jump doc and more a result of using the Lock 🔒 item. As an item that lets you edit a world it was far more valuable than Taylor realised. I imagine that in Gacha terms it would a Legendary pull."

saying here i gave my character something so awesome they didn't know it was awesome and then took it away and used it against them. honestly that's not great story telling and would strongly suggest not making its importance clearly stated in the story itself, remember show dont tell.

owlmessenger said:

Honestly, while it feels a bit like tonal whiplash given that Taylor hasn't really experienced the derp part of the grimderp that Worm is yet, this seems like a good method for Taylor to get a bit of a wake up call with (probably) mild consequences when looked at with a Gamer's perspective. A bit of standard "new guy" hazing that everyone experiences a time or two in life. Does it suck, of course. Do you enjoy it, f*ck no. Does it completely incapacitate your ability to continue on with life, not even a little bit.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The problem here is this is a very much potentially lethal prank where we, the audience, have no way of judging just how much of a dick Malfoy is being until a few chapters later, so we can only assume the worse and let it simmer.

Eastiling said:

This was less a jump doc and more a result of using the Lock 🔒 item. As an item that lets you edit a world it was far more valuable than Taylor realised. I imagine that in Gacha terms it would a Legendary pull.

I don't intend on it or the power it allows to be frequent thing in the story so no worries. Keys are one way I see to travel, but alone they just open a door.

But as an example of the kind of things I'd imagine a Lock could allow?

Give yourself a super bloodline? Senju anyone? Naruto's first hokage cells of [that makes sense] BS. All the big bad characters nod.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This makes it much worse, not better. I'm glad we didn't know that in story or I think people would be even more angry about this. That is not the sort of item you let an antagonist use for the MC, it should be the sort of thing the MC uses for themselves to reflect something about themselves. And yeah, Jump Docs (which is essentially exactly what you described the Lock as) do have that power spike when first used, and subsequent ones make it worse because you can spend less points on Quality of Life stuff and thus buy the better powers.

That said, I have a suggested edit that might be helpful for future jumps and reducing the frustration with this jump. I suggest that the Key itself came tuned with/targeted at a specific Naruto variant, and only allowed some insert options (drop in, general location, maybe reincarnate and some family options), and the Lock is instead a clock that allows Taylor to choose the time. The specific variant can only be seen once the key is used, and the summary of the variant doesn't spell out everything different just the general changes. Thus Taylor missing the summary is merely annoying rather than panic inducing.

This limits the damage the asshole OC could do, and allows you to decide on specifics later as the Key once used only gives a brief summary of the targeted world, not a detailed list or crazy options that she could choose. Given Taylor is dependent on these keys to travel in the first place (at least for now), this gives you more control/freedom to play with variant worlds and means less angsting over choices for Taylor.

It still has the problems with the Rapey-Asshole OC interrupt and people hacking her System thing, and Taylor once again being denied choices, but with the "limited" damage he could do to the jump itself those issues become lingering background worries rather than the visceral WTF you've been getting.

Edit: This also allows you to save the Lock and all it's super OP potential for later in the story when there is a power in a world that Taylor really needs but the world itself is super unpleasant.

Impatient_Quill said:

The problem here is this is a very much potentially lethal prank where we, the audience, have no way of judging just how much of a dick Malfoy is being until a few chapters later, so we can only assume the worse and let it simmer.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Except that it's not meant to be lethal, and the Malfoy doesn't even really make it seem like it is. He threatens Taylor about startinng wars etc and then f*cks with her points, which are diametrically opposite, but while doing so he is complaining about the dick that did the same to him under similar circ*mstances. This heavily implies that he is leaning more to the embarassment and inconvenience and away from the Kill 'em All mentality. Further, Taylor has already died in universe, she will come back and she knows it. We, as readers, don't actually have to assume the worst here, we can let the story flow and see what comes next while hoping for some sweet, sweet Queen of Escalation revenge down the line, even if it is an omake.

owlmessenger said:

Except that it's not meant to be lethal, and the Malfoy doesn't even really make it seem like it is. He threatens Taylor about startinng wars etc and then f*cks with her points, which are diametrically opposite, but while doing so he is complaining about the dick that did the same to him under similar circ*mstances. This heavily implies that he is leaning more to the embarassment and inconvenience and away from the Kill 'em All mentality. Further, Taylor has already died in universe, she will come back and she knows it. We, as readers, don't actually have to assume the worst here, we can let the story flow and see what comes next while hoping for some sweet, sweet Queen of Escalation revenge down the line, even if it is an omake.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Please show me where in the text we are told that there is no chance that the drawbacks from this world can't be a long term detriment to Taylor.

Impatient_Quill said:

Please show me where in the text we are told that there is no chance that the drawbacks from this world can't be a long term detriment to Taylor.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Define "long term". The whole point of my initial post was that to a Gamer this is small potatoes, and that in a world or 3 she probably won't care anymore, while having learned to be more wary of the multiverse. That the immedaite bad thing (the first really bad turn we'd seen Taylor have in this fic) could become a good character building moment, and that people immediatley jumping ship seemed premature. I even said that it would be akin to workplace hazing, which sucks in the short term and is negligible in the long term. It's just that to Taylor the long term is now measured on a whole different scale.

owlmessenger said:

Define "long term". The whole point of my initial post was that to a Gamer this is small potatoes, and that in a world or 3 she probably won't care anymore, while having learned to be more wary of the multiverse. That the immedaite bad thing (the first really bad turn we'd seen Taylor have in this fic) could become a good character building moment, and that people immediatley jumping ship seemed premature. I even said that it would be akin to workplace hazing, which sucks in the short term and is negligible in the long term. It's just that to Taylor the long term is now measured on a whole different scale.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I mean that the drawbacks will massively limit or misdirect what Taylor can get out of the Naruto world to the point that this rare world hoping resource to gain strength fails because she as Rock Lee's Chakra coils or Yakumo Kurama's heart-demon... or hell, she is forced to be an Aburame because Skitter.

I am not saying insta-dropping isn't premature, but I can very much say the story is on thinning ice.

Impatient_Quill said:

I mean that the drawbacks will massively limit or misdirect what Taylor can get out of the Naruto world to the point that this rare world hoping resource to gain strength fails because she as Rock Lee's Chakra coils or Yakumo Kurama's heart-demon... or hell, she is forced to be an Aburame because Skitter.

I am not saying insta-dropping isn't premature, but I can very much say the story is on thinning ice.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The problem there is that we don't know the drawbacks yet, they could be super bad, or they could just be something to make a second world run more challenging for an early game Gamer. Dropped straight into Naruto flush with points and with time to plan Taylor would start munchkining immediatly, this could be a way to force skill growth as opposed to overwhelming power by the author.

owlmessenger said:

The problem there is that we don't know the drawbacks yet, they could be super bad, or they could just be something to make a second world run more challenging for an early game Gamer. Dropped straight into Naruto flush with points and with time to plan Taylor would start munchkining immediatly, this could be a way to force skill growth as opposed to overwhelming power by the author.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Whether or not she would be 'Flush with points' is a balance issue Eastiling to figure out based on how much he wants this world to be a power boost for Taylor. If he wants it to be minor, he could easily have 'starting in a ninja village' be something that break's Taylor's budget.

But the fact that Taylor has been robbed of her agency when blind sided by the first indicator that she isn't alone dimension hopping, by what seems to be a caracture who is asking for Taylor to build up, hunt him down, and feed him to ants (with or without insect control powers) is the issue. It changes the tone of the story, makes the keys and the locks a lot more risky than advertised without any really narrative pay off.